Transcribed by Marcy Singer
Recorded in Toronto, Canada on May 5, 2003
KRIS: We are glad that though you are few in numbers you still have an inquisitive set of perceptions. And in spite of the stormy weather you are relatively calm yourselves.
Now you were discussing in part about beliefs and how to view some channeled materials. Correct?
That can be a rather nebulous area. It must be considered at all times that consciousness is always in the process of creating and always in the process of manifesting, whether it is through corporeal forms, forms, dimensions, thoughts, or anything that can appear in one dimension or another.
And information is also a dynamic process of consciousness. Information is never static or dead or merely thoughts strung together to create specific imagery in the minds of those receiving the information and how it is again transmitted. It is an alive and powerful method of transforming consciousness in one unique area, and that consciousness is translated into information such as what you hear at this very moment.
QUESTION: How do we distinguish between correct or true information and false, if there IS such a thing at all?
KRIS: At one specific level all information is valid. But at another level the one that is more appropriately termed ‘the conscious mind level’ perceptions, you have to determine how some materials are of benefit to you or not.
For instance, though some people would find a great deal of enjoyment in listening to a so-called alien from a far flung dimension or galaxy, others might find it less pleasant or even less beneficial, and others might find it utterly nonsensical. And a lot of that will be depending on “where” those participating in the exchange of that kind of information are situated psychologically.
QUESTION: So if all these things are relatively true, what about absolute truth? Is there such a thing as aliens in other galaxies? Are there aliens in the middle of the earth? Regardless of the psychological make up of those people who are listening at the moment.
KRIS: In your terms there are no beings living inside your planet. But there is still consciousness that makes up the planet, and that consciousness, though it takes on the form or the guise of material form, whether it be as crystals or molten lava, the units of consciousness that compose those material forms are themselves alive and sentient, though not necessarily in terms your sciences would agree with.
QUESTION: So in other words, everything is consciousness.
KRIS: Everything is alive. Everything is consciousness, even your thoughts. When you create imagery in your mind’s eye or in your imagination, you create mental forms. Correct? Even those forms are made up of units of consciousness, though they are far more subtle than the forms you are accustomed to in the external expressions that you recognize as physical matter, the physical world.
Even your emotions are yet again another even more subtle type of form, acceptable and recognizable to consciousness because it is made up of consciousness.
Now there are many individuals who are seeking ways to understand life, their place in the universe and so on and so forth, and they may be open to intuitions and communications from consciousness. They may even perceive communications from other life forms that inhabit your dimension or another. Depending on their own belief structures, they will appropriately and accordingly interpret that material. And it will be bound by the terms that they understand.
Thus someone that is firmly rooted in Judeo Christian beliefs, for instance, say someone from a Roman Catholic or Christian background may receive communications from the inner self, may tap into streams of consciousness that would have to be psychologically rooted in that individual’s belief structures for it to make some sense. Thus it would take the guise of material coming from a source such as angelic beings, because it is the reference point these individuals have.
And furthermore, information that would be beyond the terms and the vocabulary of that individual would be literally lopped of, censored at the unconscious level so that the information fits the molds they already have established about such sources of information.
QUESTION: Are you familiar with Krishnamurti?
QUESTION: I was just reading some paragraphs by him and he says that he is outside our frame of reality and he is not bound by the influence of belief and by thought. You just said that whatever an individual gets is bound by his belief system and his thinking and his background. Krishnamurti says that there are certain states of being, certain meditative states of consciousness that are outside the influence of any thought and any upbringing and any belief system. That there is really an objective state of being that is outside time and thought. Can you comment on that? I’m really interested in that kind of state.
KRIS: There are definitely many states and dimensions relevant to the states that are outside of the system of thought processes as you are aware of them. There are planes of existence far different from your own that are not related directly to your reality.
Now in themselves they are not truer or more pure or more transcendent to anything that you understand.
QUESTION: The impression I get from his writing and his being, which is considered by our standards to be an enlightened being, that those states are almost sacred. They are holy states. Immaculate. No thought has touched it. No time. No corruption. But you were just saying it was not better or truer than our regular state.
KRIS: Indeed. Compared to your levels of awareness they may appear to be far more or closer to a divine state. But these are still interpretations. There are deep states of grace that you have access to, each one of you. And the usual perception is that your ordinary states, your ordinary thoughts are somehow or other less valid, less ‘spiritual’ or advanced or enlightened, but only because most of you find it difficult to recognize that you also have access to them, to those states.
QUESTION: Those higher states?
KRIS: They are not necessarily higher. They exist as yours do. You concentrate your focuses upon one unique stream of consciousness in a particular reality.
QUESTION: Usually they are referred to as preferred states because they are eternal peacefulness and purity.
KRIS: Those are still interpretations.
QUESTION: But what Krishnamurti says is that in those states there ARE no interpretations because the mind ceases to exist as we know it.
KRIS: That is actually impossible.
QUESTION: So he is erroneous in describing it this way.
KRIS: He gave his interpretations. For instance, it is a well-known fact that there are no vacuums anywhere. All of space that you might perceive as empty actually is not empty. It is filled with preformed matter, consciousness in another state that your eyes do not pick up.
Your eyes are limited to certain wavelengths of light. You have rods and cones in your eyes that interpret specific wavelengths, and it makes you think therefore that the space between your body and Rosemarie’s body and the dog’s body and Carl’s body and Joseph’s body is empty. But these are illusions because the cones and the rods in your eyes do not perceive other forms of existence in that same space.
QUESTION: This is the thing that really baffles me because often when Krishnamurti writes or speaks he says that he can literally feel the presence of God in those moments, he can touch the very ground of the whole universe. Outside thought and outside time there is an enlightened state.
KRIS: You yourself have, as well as all of you in this room, actually have your source in that state.
QUESTION: I don’t sense that. I sense that I’m a fucked up human being!
KRIS: That is your interpretation!
QUESTION: I’m really interested in that because many of the religions on this planet are very much based on pursuing enlightenment through meditation and thought, but you don’t seem to really think that it’s any special state at all. And here on this planet there are millions and hundreds of millions of people pursuing these higher states like enlightenment.
KRIS: Because it is the source of your being. Let us put it to you this way. You exist in two places at once. You are only consciously aware of one, the physical reality, the domain of corporeal forms. Do you understand so far?
However, above and beyond the experience of corporeal reality and your expression in it, you have another existence. You have seen images of Hindu deities with many heads. For instance, there is the chief deity called Brahma. He has four heads. Each head looking in all four directions.
Now it could be said that you have many heads as well, but not all of them are visible. The one that is focused in corporeal reality has forgotten all the others. The others look in other dimensions. You have many minds and each such mind is focused elsewhere simultaneously, and that is where you have the major portion of your existence.
QUESTION: So is it important to pursue enlightenment actively?
KRIS: It will depend upon how it is being pursued. The basis of enlightenment is and always will be a reconnection with the innate loving goodness within the human heart. You take birth. You appear in the physical world because of and by that powerful loving intent. And the more you get to believe that only corporeal physical reality has any value and the rest is merely mental musings, you forget that you are connected to all of creation through the auspices of that original loving intent.
Most people in this physical world have accepted in one form or another to believe in what the Judeo Christian view calls ‘original sin’. That appears in many religions in many guises, as if because you are a corporeal being, you are automatically soiled, dirtied, as if you have been punished, simply because you have a corporeal form. And you must undergo penances of one type or another. You must atone for that before you are allowed to reconnect with these inner realms of divine love. Do you understand that?
The catch here is that you have never been punished. There is no such thing as divine retribution and there never was something called ‘original sin’!!
However, it may appear regardless of the guises that such philosophy has taken in any religion. You do not have on your planet a religion and a philosophical teaching that says that you are beings filled now with this divine spark. But you ARE divine beings now and you do not need to do penance for twenty years before you are allowed the enlightenment that you seek.
QUESTION: But is it true that we come back again and again in different reincarnations until we get enlightened? Is that at all true?
KRIS: You take as many physical forms as YOU choose. You incarnate because you deem it necessary to understand the process of transformations of energy from thought into matter in this dimension. You are not kicked here into this reality as the result of any group punishment. Do you follow?
Indeed, therefore what religions do is to actually make you believe first of all you have become dirty along the way and now you need the bath of purification to THEIR processes. So they have convinced many people that they [the people] have done something wrong but they have the way to right that wrong eventually.
QUESTION: But now it’s not only religion but also the New Age therapy and so on now tell us we are on a journey to self development, self growth and evolution. Is that different?
KRIS: The only journey you are on is one of recognizing that for the most part you must let go of a lot of metaphysical crap.
QUESTION: So what is one to do in this life in the seventy or eighty years we have of this life? Are we to devote ourselves to self-development?
KRIS: To devote to a loving abandon and fun. You take yourselves far too seriously. And you have forgotten that life is meant to be pleasurable, that you can have fun and therein lies the true revelation that you seek.
QUESTION: You said we come into a different life so we can learn how to transform thought energy into corporeal forms.
KRIS: Indeed. Into matter.
QUESTION: How do we do that?
KRIS: You do that through many resources and tools. You do it through your thoughts. You do it through your beliefs. You do it through your intent. You do it through your attitudes. You do it through your emotions, your feeling tones and so many others, your attitudes and expectations.
QUESTION: All those things together?
KRIS: Any of and all together. They do not work separately one from another. You are thinking, feeling creatures. And that stays with you regardless of the corporeal or physical form that you have at any given time.
QUESTION: No matter which state we are in.
KRIS: You are thinking, feeling beings.
QUESTION: For the life of me I’ve been trying to change my thoughts and beliefs to affect my health for the better part of the last ten or fifteen years and I’m still not able to.
KRIS: We are certain there is still hope for even you!
QUESTION: I appreciate your sense of humor. But sometimes I get pretty despondent.
QUESTION: If there is such a thing as the higher self, how do we reach it? How do we get into contact, in conscious communication with it?
KRIS: You do understand terms such as ‘higher self’, ‘inner self’, ‘god self’, or any other are simply for referential purposes. The crux of the matter is that you are that SELF, whether you call it higher self, inner self, conscious self, these are all definitions that help your conscious mind understand certain aspects of your whole being.
Overall you have lost touch with this inner self simply because you believe it exists separate from you in another place, another dimension, and so the whole New Age phenomenon, in so many words, has merely taken many values from a variety of religious forces and tried to go beyond them, but has not let go of many of the values themselves and has merely put different clothing on them. Do you understand?
For instance, we spoke of this yesterday. Many people having grown up in a Christian environment may realize those views no longer suit them. So they become students of Eastern philosophies and they wholeheartedly accept and do not question the notions of karma and karmic debt, and everything that comes with the package of karma from the Eastern philosophies.
And they believe this is now liberating them from the ‘guilts’ they grew up with in the Christian mentality. And they feel that somehow or other they have now become more enlightened because they do not question, which they did very little of in their previous environment as well.
However, if they opened their minds they would see that in the Christian environment they were burdened with such notions as original sin and the sins of their forefathers. Now with their new Eastern philosophies they do not have to deal with original sin. Instead they have karmic debts, not only with the sins of their forefathers but the sins of countless previous past lives that they feel they must now make up for and atone for. Do you understand?
It is our humble perception that such notions are never questioned and accepted blindly and therefore little else has changed, because basically people hate change. People will go to extremes to truly avoid change,
to the point of pretending that things have changed but they maintain the status quo.
QUESTION: Why is that?
KRIS: Because it would require transformation. It would require actually letting go of old concepts, and that basically means you have to wash your brain and some people find this difficult.
QUESTION: But if we are just meant to have fun in this life and not take things too seriously, why even bother with change? It’s difficult so why should I even change?
KRIS: Now are you able to have fun with life?
QUESTION: Am I? Not at this point.
KRIS: Indeed. So therefore you are faced with a conundrum, a true dilemma. Do you keep your old beliefs and try to have fun, knowing full well you will meet stumbling blocks along the way? Or would you rather abandon the old beliefs? That is something that many people find too arduous. So they would rather simply cover up the past without necessarily cleaning up the issues. Whenever they try to have fun they will be filled with remorse of one type or another.
QUESTION: So how does one get to the point of really having fun without guilt? How does one get to the point of truly approaching life as fun and a game without serious spiritual business?
KRIS: You might learn how to actually love the self and in that loving celebration have fun with life.
QUESTION: Loving the self.
QUESTION: So it’s all basically pointing out that the whole things depends on self-love?
KRIS: In very few words, yes. The purest essence of life you usually find in children because they have not yet learned that they are not supposed to have fun! Children love being themselves. They haven’t learned that they are supposed to be someone or something else or that they have to please others. They are, therefore, having fun.
QUESTION: On this planet there is an unconscious or unspoken belief that we are here to do something, some homework that we have to do to accomplish a journey or something that we have to achieve. I’m sensing that there is a subconscious belief pervading and permeating this whole planet that we are here for a purpose, for a journey.
KRIS: You ARE. You are here because you have chosen this environment because it is the best medium within which you become familiar with the processes of transforming energy. Your thoughts and everything related to them become materialized.
Now when you have become sufficiently learned, an enlightened master, that you have become learned in how to transform that energy into matter, then you may see that you are now ready to proceed to other dimensions where your newfound prowess and abilities in transforming energy can have other uses.
QUESTION: Can you give more exactly how to transform energy into matter?
KRIS: Your thoughts, your emotions, your expectations become the events and circumstances of your daily existence.
QUESTION: But the average person never thinks that that is what happens.
KRIS: That is irrelevant. If you are in a foreign country and you run a red light, you cannot claim to the officer, ‘I did not know’. He will still ticket you, because the rule is the rule. In your physical reality whether someone is aware or not of how their thoughts, their feelings, their emotions are translated into the events, the conditions, and the circumstances of their daily living is entirely irrelevant. They still do it.
QUESTION: They are still learning.
KRIS: Indeed. The key is to become more and more conscious of that fact so that they might then understand that first of all they are not victims but they are co-creators, and if they do not like the events that are happening in their lives they have recourse, not to their government, not to the neighbor, not to the religion, but they have recourses within themselves. They have the thoughts and the abilities to transform that energy into more suitable and fun loving situations. Does that make some sense?
QUESTION: So if I were to wake up in the morning thinking about having a good day then it’s likely I will have it.
KRIS: The more you can detail your upcoming days, the more focus or concentration or meditation you give to creating enjoyable, pleasant, fun filled days, the more they will occur.
QUESTION: So that’s how you create what you get.
KRIS: You get what you think.
QUESTION: What you concentrate on.
KRIS: Indeed. And that is truly the cornerstone of what you have referred to as The Seth Material. You get what you concentrate upon.
How is it that people who entertain dark and moody thoughts seem to always come across situations that reflect their dark moods? Is it because situations give them dark moods or that their moods literally invent more and more situations that only get darker and darker?
We suggest that it is the latter, that their inner situations, their inner storms and conflicts create situations that reflect their inner conflict. And there are other individuals that experience the opposite end of that spectrum. They are individuals who wake up in the morning with a smile. They have a sense that the day to come will only be filled with pleasant encounters and loving individuals and so on and so forth. You usually refer to them as Goody Two Shoes. They are often shunned by the other group.
So it is at the same time both a simple and a complex topic, but overall all situations originate in the mind. Whether you understand the principle or not will not influence the outcome. But if you understand the principle, YOU can influence the outcome. So it is to your advantage to understand that you create whatever events and conditions in your life from within your own thoughts. And the more, for instance, that you believe that you are exasperated and despondent and despairing about your situation, the more you amplify it because it is where you concentrate more and more and more of your energy.
QUESTION: Is it possible that a soul will maintain a certain physical difficulty because the soul wants to learn something through it?
KRIS: Only if you are in agreement with that. The soul does not override the personality. It can create unlimited other personalities to deal with other situations without imposing its main intent. It has unlimited intent. However, you might find that there is some benefit to maintaining a situation, but your inner self will certainly not override your intent. Do you follow?
QUESTION: Sometimes I’m wondering if I keep my physical problem for a certain purpose because sometimes it seems so overwhelming that I think that there is a certain purpose that I’m not aware.
KRIS: But you ARE aware of all the reasons why you maintain your conditions, each and every one of you. There is nothing hidden from yourselves excepting that which you purposely hide from yourselves.
QUESTION: But how can we uncover what we don’t know consciously.
KRIS: Actually you DO know everything that you have shoved into your unconscious. You entertained your own thoughts.
QUESTION: We should become aware of our own thoughts as they happen.
KRIS: Give the man a prize! You can come to the head of the room! That is exactly what is important, becoming aware of your thoughts and thinking processes. That requires a different type of concentration.
QUESTION: What do you mean by that? What type of concentration are you talking about?
KRIS: Almost like fine-tuning. Imagine when you are tuning your FM stereo. You are going between different megahertz and you are trying to get a specific station. You have to fine tune the tuner so that you can correctly pick up the one station amongst others. Do you understand?
So you must now become aware of thinking whereas before you were largely unaware of your thinking. So it requires that you become more specific. You must fine tune the concentration. Whenever you entertain thoughts you do not merely let them flow in and out of you without question, so that now you can stop yourself in mid thinking and ask yourself, ‘now why did I think that?’ and the answers will come. And you can keep asking, ‘yes, now why did I think THAT? And why did I think THAT?’
Consider it a playful and loving exercise. Like the child using his little pail and plastic bucket to make little sand castles in the sand box by the seashore. And there you actually discover what may cause you problems.
Now we will take a break. We have already suggested to Joseph here that he describe to you something he did exactly along those lines. Do you understand?
QUESTION: No, what do you mean? You suggested to Joseph what?
KRIS: That he describe to you something he did along those very lines of paying attention to your thoughts.
QUESTION: So he will describe it to us in the break?
KRIS: Indeed. Now take your break and enjoy yourselves. How can you stand having a so-called dead guy tell the living how to enjoy themselves?
KRIS: We hope that Joseph’s explanation has at least been somewhat useful.
It requires a bit more attention to your thought processes than you are accustomed to giving, but the rewards themselves can far outweigh the small effort in that direction.
You have other questions perhaps?
QUESTION: It occurred to me before that break that really we are creating our reality by our thoughts, thoughts create the universe, but most people on this planet don’t think that and don’t believe that. It’s not common knowledge that our thoughts create things.
KRIS: Simply because they do not think about it.
QUESTION: Right. Now what I’m asking you is that if we really, really believed that our thoughts create things, if I really, really believe that my thoughts create things…..
KRIS: It’s not a question of believing that your thoughts create things because they already do, whether you believe it or not. It is not a question of belief. It is a question of observing.
QUESTION: Right. If I was truly aware of that fact, that would change me to a great deal, right?
KRIS: Indeed. In fact if you believed that you can, through your thoughts, change your reality, this is something entirely different now, you do not have to believe that your thoughts do this, but if you believe that you can change sufficiently your thoughts, then you could radically transform your existence.
So the believing is not in the fact that your thoughts make things, but change the nature of what you believe about your thoughts, concerning your thoughts, involving your thoughts. That is an entirely different thing.
QUESTION: Come again?
KRIS: You do not have to believe that your thoughts make things. That occurs whether you accept it or not. It is like breathing. You do not have to believe that you need air to breathe. The fact is evident.
However, what you believe concerning yourself within that process certainly can radically change the outcome of your reality. So if you begin to believe that regardless of all perceptions, you have a healthy self, a healthy body, healthy emotions, and a healthy relationship between those emotions and your body, you could radically change what occurs in your body and the relationship you have with it. Does that make some sense to you?
QUESTION: So basically what sets it is to change our belief system.
QUESTION: If the prevailing theory is that smoking is bad for you and it harms your body…..
KRIS: You have not noticed that since people have started to believe this, more and more seems to be coming up?
KRIS: Sickness related to smoking.
QUESTION: So then when people didn’t believe there were not as many?
KRIS: There have been people who have been smoking for fifty years and they do not have any illness related to so-called smoking.
QUESTION: So is smoking good for you or not good for you?
KRIS: In terms of beliefs, it is entirely irrelevant.
QUESTION: I’m asking if there is an objective truth to this? Is smoking ultimately not good for you regardless of your belief?
KRIS: It would be better if you did not, but however…..
QUESTION: So there IS something over and above our beliefs that affects us. So it is not all thoughts. The Universe….
KRIS: Your Universe is generated by your thoughts. The more people believe that eating donuts becomes deadly, the more there will be donut related deaths. The more you believe that smelling the roses is hazardous to your health the more there will be smelling-the-roses related deaths.
QUESTION: So let’s make a hypothesis. Let’s say that we change our belief that donuts are actually healthier than spinach. Would eating donuts actually help us?
KRIS: You could eventually, if your beliefs were of such caliber, ingest radioactive elements and not be physically harmed.
QUESTION: Would it actually be good for me to eat donuts if I really believed that look, it’s like spinach?
QUESTION: Our thoughts would transform whatever….
KRIS: The possibility is there, but you do not have those kinds of belief structures that would enable you to ingest even glass and directly benefit from it.
QUESTION: I don’t have this kind of belief?
KRIS: You do not.
QUESTION: But what if I can change my belief? You said the whole idea is to change my belief about myself. What if I can change beliefs through hypnosis where I change the belief that eating glass is really good for me?
KRIS: You would actually have far more success healing your body that way.
QUESTION: You mean he would have more success by believing that glass is good for you?
KRIS: Joshua would have more success in using post hypnotic suggestion to change his beliefs relating to his bodily health than believing that ingesting broken glass is healthy for him.
QUESTION: So what is the different between those two thoughts? Why is one harder than the other?
KRIS: If you were to….in many ways this particular aspect is irrelevant and it is not making the point….but, for the sake of it, if you started to believe that eating broken glass might be good for you, and as you are swallowing it down your throat you faltered and then for a moment questioned, what would happen to you throat?
QUESTION: I don’t know. Nothing really.
QUESTION: You’d get cut.
QUESTION: I don’t think so. Right now I’m thinking that I’m healthy and it does not mean that I’m instantly healthy.
KRIS: Indeed. You must lead the body into it.
QUESTION: Right. It’s the same thing. Just because I think….
KRIS: We do not recommend however that you go home and eat broken glass.
QUESTION: Right. I actually had a question but you have talked me out of it.
KRIS: We are glad we can be of service! But you can, however, go home and begin, in spite of all appearances, dare yourself to believe that you have a self that has a healthy body and draw that reality into your life.
QUESTION: And what is the best way to do that? Hypnosis is a process?
KRIS: Indeed it is an excellent methodology. Hypnosis, self-hypnosis.
QUESTION: I wanted to ask you. The last few months I have been attending classical guitar concerts. This is an area of interest for me. And I go to come of the concerts of students and professionals and so on. And I notice that some of them really play with enormous difficulty even though they have been practicing for years. It’s a very hard instrument to play well. And yesterday I was at a guitar concert where the person was really struggling with some pieces, and yet I will go to another concert by a guy who will almost play effortlessly. And I wonder what is the difference? Is the difference only in the thoughts of those two students?
KRIS: It is quite possible that the one that plays effortlessly believes that he has the ability to effortlessly play most pieces.
QUESTION: Is that the only difference? By their thoughts?
KRIS: The rich man is rich because he believes that he is rich and the poor man believes he is poor. Do you understand that?
QUESTION: Yes. So that’s the only difference then?
KRIS: There might be other small variations, but essentially that is the crux of the matter.
QUESTION: What are the other variations?
KRIS: It could be many things, but the crux of the matter……
QUESTION: Would you say that 90% is the belief?
KRIS: Quite likely.
QUESTION: So Elvis Presley believed that he was famous and handsome and adored by millions of people? Was that basically what made him Elvis? Or was there another element?
KRIS: Part of that was his rich deep voice.
QUESTION: But there are many others who have deep rich voices. So was that purely thoughts that created him that he saw himself as Elvis and became the person that we know? Or were there other elements here which contributed to his fame?
KRIS: It could have had something to do with all of his adoring fans as well.
QUESTION: Their thinking as well.
KRIS: You do live in a co-created reality. But as far as your personal reality, your beliefs are paramount.
Now, what is the time please?
We will return you to your loving beliefs about yourselves.
QUESTION: Can I ask one closing question?
KRIS: We would rather give Joseph back his awareness. Do keep in mind that you get what you concentrate upon. That is an immutable rule and it is the only one you need to concern yourselves with. And in that light, enjoy what you believe in and believe what is enjoyable and have fun with your lives. And do enjoy the rest of this stormy evening.
Serge Joseph Grandbois channels Kris, a compassionate and intelligent non-physical entity, or Energy Personality Gestalt (as Kris describes themselves). Serge is one of the clearest vessels for non-physical communication in the world today. He has given voice to Kris for nearly 35 years, helping people from all walks of life.
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