Transcribed by Ellen Gilbert (Kwaa’Ji)
Recorded in Toronto, Canada on December 11, 2005
KRIS: …And we have a suggestion for the next gathering if you are up to the challenge. Imagine that you are someone else. If you need to, you may even dress up in a manner suitable to the self you imagine yourself to be, and come as that individual, with the awareness of who you are, as well as who you imagine yourself to be. And pay attention to the various states, including the go-between. Do you understand?]
(7:31 PM Session Begins)
KRIS: Now we trust that you are all comfortable and we thank you for your consideration, and we acknowledge our new visitor, who is, this evening we believe, two in one, as most of you are as well. (Laughter) For those of you who have pondered the idea of coming as someone else, we would enjoy your perspective and intent with this and who would be so brave as to share that?
(Long pause, then laughter)
MYRNA: I, Kris…I would.
KRIS: Feel free.
MYRNA: Thank you. Well, my name is Candy. (Laughter from group, including Myrna)
KRIS: Are you a nurse?
MYRNA: (Laughing uproariously) No. My intent…..um….I am still struggling with the belief that somehow money is going to make my life more difficult. That somehow, what I associate with money, and the people I associate with money are not aspects of myself that I like, so I decided to come as a woman who has a great deal of money, and is thoroughly enjoying herself with no guilt attached. I’d like to know what that’s like, the no guilt attached.
KRIS: And what kind of mindset, or mentality does this individual entertain? What is she focused on?
MYRNA: Pleasure. (Pause) Although I’m still having a hard time being her! (Group laughter, Myrna’s loudest of all) I have this feeling it’s got to be hard! (Group cracks up) Sorry! So I just thought I’d…I’d like to play with this. I don’t know how else to get it into my system!
KRIS: Well then, perhaps you can put Myrna aside and simply immerse yourself in the atmosphere of this individual. (Pause) As Candy, how do you view the world?
MYRNA: Well, I just had a moment of imagining being on the Aegean Sea, and seeing it, really seeing the sea, and that’s not a lot of difference than when I see the sky when I’m here in Toronto. So….how do I view the world? I view the world as….um….as sensuous, to be delighted in.
KRIS: Now you are certain you are in character?
MYRNA: No….No, I’m not, actually. No. I having a feeling of Candy as being a party girl and really superficial. (Group giggles)
MARK: In other words, she’s got her own life challenges.
MYRNA: Yes, she does.
MICHELLE: She doesn’t know it, though.
MYRNA: Well, she’s somebody who doesn’t spend a lot of time worrying about her life challenges. You know, she just….life is to be lived, although I can’t imagine why I chose her.
KRIS: We know. It is for you to reason it out. Now we believe it is important that you slip into that character. How does it — being Candy — feel like?
MYRNA: Um….Oh, I don’t know…Kris, I’m having a hard time, because I’m so intense in life, whereas I’m getting a sense of her as not…
MYRNA: Languorous! (Laughs) Yes, that was the word I used — languorous! Life is just easy…life is easy! That’s as far as I can go.
KRIS: Pretend for one moment that there is nothing in you but Candy. You ARE Candy. Now we wish to ask Candy a question.
KRIS: What do you think of this character that is called Myrna?
MYRNA: I find her very dull. Very dull! She’s very heavy, she doesn’t know how to play.
KRIS: Can you teach her some of that? To have fun? To become footloose?
MYRNA: I think I can! (Laughing)
KRIS: What else do you think you can do to help assist in her fun with Myrna?
MYRNA: Well, I could probably lend her some of my money!
(Uproarious laughter among the group)
MARK: I was waiting for that!
MYRNA: (Still laughing) Oh, wow…even playing her now like this…uh…I feel lighter. (Sighs) I think what I could do is remind Myrna of parts of……I see a lot of me in Myrna years ago. I could remind her of that part, those parts.
KRIS: One helpful suggestion is considering the possibility of sharing with Myrna some of your own moods and perspectives and attitudes; allowing those elements to flow, perhaps through dream states or daydreams, towards the character of Myrna. And of course, she is entirely free to pick up the ball and run with it, but that is also something you do well, so you can encourage her in that direction also. Do you think that is something Myrna would be amenable to do?
MYRNA: Yes, because….because there’s loving intent.
KRIS: And did you notice that when Myrna assumed that you would be superficial, that in some respects that is part of her own challenge towards being more prosperous in thinking perhaps of those who are may indeed become superficial and shallow and thus when Myrna does not want to become superficial, she automatically blocks what she thinks comes with superficiality: abundance. Did you notice that, Candy?
MYRNA: No, but Myrna knows it.
KRIS: That is an interesting perspective that you can assist Myrna with.
MYRNA: I can use my imagination here to imagine that I can do that. Thank you.
KRIS: Being a party girl is obviously something that requires a lot of imagination, so we are certain you can share. Will that do you for now?
MYRNA: Yes. Thank you.
KRIS: Now, what does Myrna think of that?
MYRNA: Uh, I am having a hard time getting past…..I’m having a hard time, Kris, getting past the belief that abundance is not going to take me away from my spiritual ground. I…I SO am anchored in believing that I see abundance around me and the people are heartless! I mean I know I’m making judgments here, I know that, but I’m….
KRIS: What do you think would happen if you instantly recognized that some of those ideas are perhaps without foundation? That they can run like sand through your fingers and be taken by the wind? In other words, even though you think you are having a hard time getting past this belief, simultaneously you are already able to get past it. It is a matter of allowing. Does that make sense to you?
MYRNA: Well, it does on an intellectual level, it makes sense.
MYRNA: The matter of allowing, I can work with that.
KRIS: Good. As any therapist worth his or her salt would say: Our time is up!
(Group cracks up)
MYRNA: That’s Himalayan salt of course! (Laughter)
MYRNA: Thank you.
KRIS: Midora, you also came as someone else?
JOSHUA: Yes, I did. I came as a person that I live with, and I struggle in my relationship with him. I love him as a brother, I don’t really like him. The work I’ve done principally with that is to try and figure out where I’m not free. When he’s around I’m wondering what parts of myself I’m seeing in him that I don’t like. So I thought I’d come as him to try to understand him better, to get to know him better in that sense and to understand where some of my own judgments are coming from.
KRIS: As you have undertaken to more or less approximate this individual’s own perspectives, what do you sense has been some of his challenges?
JOSHUA: Transparency….um, trust. (Pause) Dealing with fear… Fear is probably a major one.
KRIS: And as YOUR self, how do you perceive that you are handling similar issues?
JOSHUA: I struggle with trust… Issues of trust and I often step into negative fear-based spirituality. So, I can meet him on all these grounds. In a way, I understand him very well. It’s a matter of trying to like and not dislike him (inaudible).
KRIS: When you recognize the similarities in your struggles, you also recognize the similarities [in] the fact that both of you may not necessarily like each other, correct?
JOSHUA: That’s right.
KRIS: Now, of course, it is one thing to love others, and in that light, you are not obliged to LIKE them, though you may love them dearly.
JOSHUA: That’s right.
KRIS: If you were to shine that light onto yourself, how do you think that you could react or respond differently in the future?
JOSHUA: By shining it on myself, I would want the constant reminder to be more forgiving and gentle with myself and……a calling to an attentiveness so that I can be more aware of where I am spiritually so that I catch myself before I go into a fear-based negative spirituality. And it’s also a matter of changing some of the imagery that I use. I have to come up with positive, healthier imagery.
KRIS: In so many words, this can be broken down to Acknowledging, Addressing and Accepting of your own challenges and what is perceived perhaps as shortcomings in your own personality makeup. And specifically by accepting even those perceived shortcomings as a necessary part of your own developmental psychology you may reflect that onto this individual and be accepting because you are able to more readily accept your own developmental stages. Does that make sense to you?
JOSHUA: Yes, it does. I just have to figure out how to do that. (Group laughter)
MYRNA: Don’t we all!
KRIS: It is far easier to pretend to accept the other than to accept oneself, but we can assure you that if you begin in the opposite direction, accepting of your own self, and shine that acceptance onto the other — or any other — it will be more than easy. It will establish a far more solid foundation for your own growth. Thus the growth struggles of other individuals will seem less frightening to you. Does that also make sense?
JOSHUA: Yes, it does.
KRIS: Once you have sorted all of that in the next three or four hundred years (Group chuckles), you may feel far more secure in your own being! Now, all kidding aside, accepting of your own self will already nurture others. You will be more quickly cast into the mindset of nurturing of others. Do you follow?
KRIS: (Pause) Someone else, perhaps? (Pause) [Jokingly] We are certain there is one OR TWO that we spy.
JOHN: Well, Kris, I am Hans Knechtel, a 75-year-old German, born in Bavaria, pretty set in my ways, a Protestant, but not very religious. I have a wife, Maria, and three children, and I really like hot chocolate and apple strudel in the morning and peppermint schnapps at night.
KRIS: What does Hans feel like?
JOHN: Hans is basically pretty happy. He has a wife, he has children, he has grandchildren; he’s done all that. There are one or two little things he’s not really that proud of: everything he did during the war, but that was a long, long time ago and the world has changed, so he’s getting more comfortable with some of those experiences. He’s thinking he’s had a pretty good life….and he loves schnapps.
KRIS: Why did you tune into that character?
JOHN: I’m not…
KRIS: In other words, what are you offsetting here?
JOHN: Well, I was — when you were talking to the others I was thinking a little bit about that…. I think that I’m offsetting a little…..Hans did the whole family thing: the wife, the children, the career and I think I haven’t done the family thing and don’t intend to, so I think that may be what’s offsetting there, a little bit. He may be showing me some of the pleasures and satisfactions and development opportunities of doing the family thing.
KRIS: And if Hans were to reflect upon John’s character and life, what kind of observations and thoughts would come to his mind?
JOHN: Well, I think he would feel….I feel in him….I think he would feel that I was an artistic temperament and that allowances need to be made, but honestly, I have not made much of an effort to be substantial and successful. I think he’d feel I’ve wasted my life so far.
KRIS: And in all sincerity, WHY would you consider that parts of your own life have been wasted? What kind of beliefs do you give safe harbor to?
JOHN: I think that I may have….I think that “wasted” is too strong….here I’m John, rather than Hans….as John, I disagree, I don’t think I’ve wasted my life — ALTHOUGH, I did spend twenty-two years as a member of Eckankar (Laughs self-deprecatingly) and this was the exact time frame in which Jane’s Seth works were coming out into the world and I don’t know, but there’s part of me that thinks that I might have spent those twenty years more beneficially, rather than just parking myself in Eckankar for twenty years.
KRIS: So we assume that, for the time being, that is your excuse and you are sticking to it.
JOHN: That’s my story and I’m sticking to it, yeah.
KRIS: Overall, if you had to reconcile any aspects of both of these individuals, what would they be?
JOHN: “Reconcile aspects of both of these individuals”……I’m not sure I quite understand the question.
KRIS: The question would lead to a third character, would it not?
JOHN: Oh, I see what you’re saying! Yes, yes. Uh, yeah, so I’m getting Sohars there and in other words…
JOHN: …and Sohars is finding value in both of those….and I do too! I mean I see value enhances life! Definitely! I mean having a family and uh…..and there’s something lovely about Germany, (musingly) something kind of nice about living in Germany, it’s like a fairy tale or something….lot of chocolate!
(Everyone cracks up)
KRIS: You obviously enjoy a different Germany than many Germans! (Laughter)
JOHN: Yes….yes, I did think about this…being Hans for awhile and then being John and then what’s in between there, and what’s fun — this is a fun exercise because it helps me shake off to some degree a little bit of the John mood and tone and to jump into the Hans mood and tone, and then to shake off that and sort of not really be in either mood or tone, but have a meta-tone that encompasses and values them both.
KRIS: And how does John rest with this?
JOHN: I’m happy with it. I see it as a useful exercise. I have a sneaking feeling that Hans may be more than my imagination. (Laughs) It’s, of course, a delightful and titillating idea.
KRIS: In that you are correct. Now, what is the time?
KRIS: Perhaps one more before break.
LIDA: I am a famous violinist, it can be somebody from the past like (inaudible: famous historical violinist) or it could be somebody who plays NOW, in this time, Pavarotti or Midori or whoever, and I admire in my life all the creative energy and the feeling that I can get lost in my music and uh…actually, I MAKE music, I don’t own it….and being Lida, I guess I miss it. I don’t have it in my life.
KRIS: Here is a perhaps interesting perspective. Not quite from violinist — musical person — but more so from the standpoint of the music. How does the music feel, being interpreted through this character?
LIDA: It depends on the character because everybody plays the same note differently. Each person perceives music differently.
KRIS: And how does THIS music, created and played by this character feel?
LIDA: Very passionate.
KRIS: So this character infuses his works with passion.
KRIS: And does Lida feel that somehow or other there is some passion missing?
LIDA: Ah, that must be the case! I’m quite happy with my life, but it is sort of everyday life and I think a hobby….I love listening to music, but to be able to create music by playing would be wonderful. I did some piano playing when I was young, it never amounted to much, I mean I finished it, but since six or seven, nothing.
KRIS: How would you as the musician share some of your passion and your passionate music with Lida?
LIDA: I think I would invite her to one of my concerts, but I have a feeling that it would not be enough.
KRIS: Now, as Lida, how do you think you can incorporate some of that passion into your day?
LIDA: Finding a new hobby. Make music or, or something else.
KRIS: How do you see that?
LIDA: I think I need to do some research on something serious creative…..a hobby.[Kris makes a joke here, but the laughter drowns him out on the recording.]
(Raucous group laughter)
LIDA: I think so!
KRIS: We are ALMOST certain that it would be more pleasurable. Do you see yourself making the necessary steps to investigate how you can go about adding some passion in your moments?
KRIS: And can that sort of self begin by being passionate?
LIDA: I think so. It will take time, but I have always wanted to paint, I have some free time so I have indulged myself for some classes. But these are still baby steps.
KRIS: They are very important steps. We are certain that you will play the appropriate scenario to lead you to where that passion will draw you. Many artists, whether they be sculptors, painters, musicians, singers, or otherwise, often think that their art or craft is the outlet for their passion. However, it would also be as true to say that their passion — that passion, that flame that burns within them — actually sculpts or paints the existence they need to LIVE those moments. Does that make sense?
LIDA: Yes, very much so.
KRIS: Even the greatest pianist, for example, can play the most complex arrangements of ivories in the world – if there is no passion, if it is all rote, notes learned by heart and repetition — then those notes will ring on deaf ears. Do you understand?
KRIS: So adding a little spice in your exploration will definitely give you a different picture of yourself and the world. Do not be hesitant or afraid to step into that world. Now, what is the time?
KRIS: Indeed, we will allow a small break, and even though some of you have thought up to now this is rather benign, this is after all the first part!
MYRNA: Yes, we kind of knew that!
(Break begins at 8:13)
JOHN: That was great, eh?
MARK: Yeah, that was wonderful.
MYRNA: I LOVE these exercises! Kris, more!! (Laughter)
JOHN: Well, you know what I like is that….We are adding more…to the thing. It’s more of a partnership, you know?
JOHN: Instead of just a monologue, it’s now this…
MYRNA: Yeah, it’s shifted for us into a new direction.
General agreements all around that the group is enjoying these sort of sessions. Mark says that he got more insights into his own self-issues just by listening to everyone else. The point is made that there seems to be a common theme running through the exercise. Myrna tells Lida that the idea that passion carves out the life of the self struck a deep chord within her.
MARK: (To Myrna) Question for you: what would Myrna do with money?
MYRNA: Actually, two things came up when you asked me that. I want to see more of the physical plane. Being with Kris, I recognize there are aspects of me, everywhere, and I don’t know enough yet! I want that. The other is, there are young women around the world, whether Pakistan or Afghanistan or Africa…I want to help them go to school.
MARK: I asked because I see when you were talking tonight that you’ve got this wannabe side, who wants to be wealthy and carefree…. but that’s not really what Myrna wants!
MYRNA: No, it’s not carefree.
MARK: No, it’s not!
MYRNA: Not at all.
MARK: You don’t have to have the carefree; you can do what you want…
MYRNA: I’m working on trying to remember that….no, it’s not carefree that I want…
MARK: I know that! (Laughing)
MYRNA: I’ll remember your saying that to me.
MARK: I think there’s some subliminal deep-down belief in there that you’re not going to be the person you want to be if you had the money, and that’s not true. It’s not true at all.
MYRNA: I know that, it’s getting it –
MARK: Yeah, exactly: it’s addressing it and accepting it…
MYRNA: Yeah, exactly. “Getting” it.[MARK’S NOTES: I came as my aunt, a family member in an effort to better understand my own family and how they perceive me, Serge and Kris and my role in this trilogy.]
MARK: With me, with my aunt and the family, it’s like I perceive my family as always pushing me into different directions that I really hate and what I’m getting now is that I’m PERCEIVING that THEY are perceiving that I’M not accepting of what I am. I’m not meeting my own standards, so to speak. So, therefore, they’re seeing a side of me that I’m say, unhappy, or not where I want to be, so they try to push me into a new direction, rather than just me perceiving them as pushing me in a new direction. So once I realize, and start accepting myself, for whom and what I am and what I’m doing…
MYRNA: It will happen “out there.”
MARK: [Yes], it will happen “out there.” But here, I’m so worried about what they’re thinking, it shifts — so, therefore, they’re perceiving that I’m not confident, not happy where I am, [they try to push me] in a different direction. It’s weird, eh?
MYRNA: That’s a great insight.
MARK: A big twist….and it’s all out of love for me.
The group asks Michelle about her work with children.
MICHELLE: I’ve worked with children for years. Two years ago I found a job working with developmentally-challenged adults — which aren’t children because they have [different] challenges — and I also do Reiki and intuitive reading, shamanic journeys, and healing/teaching work, in which I’m trying to start a business. I find that my passion is really in working with the children because I just love it so much.
MYRNA: Didn’t you say particularly autistic children? Or not?
MICHELLE: That is something I really want to, like…right now I’m working with adults and I like it, but they’re adults, they’re not children. My passion is children, so I actually want to start doing this job with autistic or developmentally challenged LITTLE ones as opposed to six-foot-two men who have minds of children, and are autistic.[ELLEN’S NOTE: Joshua relates a story about his experience with a homeless woman, but unfortunately, I am unable to pick up the thread of it, due to other sounds in the room and the low tone of his voice]
JOHN: Well, I’m seeing a pattern. Is everybody seeing a pattern? The question is: What was the other person, what’s their worldview, and how does that affect you and what do you think of them, and what do they think of you, and how can you combine resources with the other person.
MARK: What’s really interesting about this is you can use a real person or an imaginary person, a historical figure, or somebody in the room. It’s a cute little technique.
MYRNA: Other aspects of us make [themselves] felt.
MARK: It’s actually a personalization of an NLP (Neuro Linguistic Programming), from my perspective, anyway.
MYRNA: Yeah…. (turning to John) So it was Hans who believes that John has wasted his life, or John who believes John has wasted his life for twenty years?
JOHN: Well, it gets a bit mixed up there, doesn’t it?
MYRNA: It does.
(Kris returns at 8:24)
KRIS: Now you have been pondering this modality. You have been pondering your participation, and we are certain you have been pondering more than that. Keep pondering for a few more moments. It might bring surprises. May we ask our lovely guest about HIS characterization?
ALAN: Well, um it involves another person with who I’ve been in a certain situation for a couple of years now. It’s a business relationship and uh….it’s interesting, the time of this meeting because he just communicated his view to me regarding the matter two hours before I came here and the communication was quite shocking and was unexpected. So I am in a situation now where I am trying to understand how to respond to him and sort of where he is at in his perspective on matters and what he thinks it will be possible to do moving forward in this scenario.
KRIS: Do you have a first name for this character?
ALAN: Yeah. Burt.
KRIS: If you take but seconds to slip into that character, what kind of mindset do you detect?
ALAN: Well, I have thought previously that his mindset was friendly, conciliatory, wanting to resolve matters for me, but now I have to wonder, given the response that I received from him, whether I was not mistaken in that and as it seems that his mindset is — perhaps that he’s testing me, or testing my responses in order to determine how willing I am to persevere with this.
KRIS: Now, going beyond observing a mindset, and simply allowing yourself to be that character for a moment or two, what, as you said — Burt?
KRIS: — do you think about Alan’s mindset?
ALAN: I think that he is aware that I have been injured in this situation –
KRIS: But — AS Burt.
ALAN: Yeah, what does he think?
MARK: Do “I”.
ALAN: Oh, what do I think?
KRIS: You are Burt. There’s a slight differentiation, but it is actually important. You are BURT. What do you think of Alan’s mindset?
ALAN: Well, it’s difficult to discern, because I’ve just received this communication from him and so I am inclined to put myself in his mindset relative to what he has just communicated to me.
KRIS: That is correct.
MARK: Can you picture yourself communicating [as Burt] with Alan, via the method that he did. Pretend to be him sitting down at the computer, or however.
ALAN: Well, I have the sense that that implicates….a sense of a dismissive kind of juncture, or……he is perhaps … fine, if I were him, I would perhaps be testing to see what my response would be to this inner communication or to this awkwardness that he brings to me, which he knows or which has been made in the knowledge that it would be altogether inadequate.
KRIS: As Alan, how do you feel concerning this issue? Where does it place you?
ALAN: Well, it puts me in the position as having to again absorb my time and attention in dealing with this as I have done for almost three years.
KRIS: The sense we get, for lack of a better word, is that you would prefer that this issue perhaps has already been settled. By that we mean our sense of you is that you like to have things pretty well sorted out, perhaps even before situations BECOME situations. Does that make sense to you?
ALAN: Not in terms of this situation….because it is unsettled, it’s unresolved, and there’s the prospect of it continuing to be unresolved.
KRIS: That may offer an indication, a slight direction in this.
ALAN: (Pause) Um, well, I have a meeting with him on Tuesday, a face to face meeting, and so it may be my intention at that meeting to respond to his communication and to indicate that it has been inadequate.
KRIS: Now the outcome, of course, is unknown to you specifically as far as you are concerned. It could possibly have ten different outcomes from the point of view of speculation. But there is definitely an aspect of you as Self, that has already resolved that issue. If you could gather to you — in a sense that this has been adequately and satisfactorily resolved — how would you respond to that sense, without necessarily knowing HOW it has been resolved, but that it HAS been resolved… Quite nicely resolved.
ALAN: Actually I was approaching, the past week or two, knowing that the individual was considering others, I was actually having a sense of matters being resolved, and so I was very surprised to receive this communication in which clearly it was very much out of line with my expectations. But it’s quite true, I did feel, I did have a very strong sense that it was resolved.
MARK: That’s exactly what he meant a moment ago when he said you do that.
ALAN: Oh, you mean feel that it’s resolved?
MARK: You resolve it before you create the situation. That’s exactly it. It has been sorted out, even though that’s in your future.
ALAN: Oh. Oh, that’s interesting! That’s interesting because I had consulted a couple of other — you know — sort of spiritual — and they all concurred on that…that it’s a question on how to move towards a more concrete –
ALAN: — where there still has to be some physical interaction with the individual.
KRIS: Does this situation also give you a sense that your own authority has been impinged upon, even to a certain degree? So that you have to assert your own authority.
ALAN: Well, yes…uh, that’s quite true. Inevitably I’m put in that position again when matters are not dealt with in a satisfactory way. I have to come forward again and make the same points and take the issue and state my position again. And this has been going on for three years.
KRIS: Now, if you were to take that extended scenario and view it either as a dream or as a psychodrama that is meant to impart a knowing or a teaching to you, an interpretation, what would it say to you? In other words, still, why would you invite a situation of this nature into your life’s drama, and what possible purposes would you allow this to happen?
ALAN: Well, that’s a very good question. I think that one thing that has come out of this is an involvement in public service in this particular area. And another situation is that I’m learning through systems of having to stand up for oneself, without consequence again and again and again, in which the other party continues to undermine.
KRIS: It is quite possible that even though the outcome may not be one hundred percent resolved in a manner that is completely satisfying. There may be enough wiggle room to allow an agreement that some disagreements have to be aired without anyone losing face or authority. Does that make sense to you?
ALAN: Well, it has to be different than it is now. So then…what is…I have to meet with this person in two days to respond to this situation and….how to do that so the other person does not lose face or authority?
KRIS: As well as you. So that both of you may indeed have a middle ground; so that both come out at least with a certain degree of satisfaction.
KRIS: Our suggestion to you is to direct your awareness, your intent, to the creation of a discussion whereby your responses and your — perhaps argument is strong word — but your perspective during this discussion will be such as the other understands without your conscious application where intuition, that inner knowledge, will speak for you. In simpler words still, whether this evening or during the day, utilize auto-suggestion, basically suggesting to your inner self — however you view this inner self — that you know the answers and the correct outcome already exists.
You will make allowances for that best outcome to manifest itself. It requires a bit of a passive role, as opposed to the usual role most individuals take when situations can escalate. That is to take a slightly passive role. It does not mean loss of power or retreating, but instead may actually display far more power because you then will be less prone to give the other fuel. In that respect, the other has to give him or herself up. Do you understand?
ALAN: Yeah, so not being adversarial in other words.
KRIS: Indeed, if one is not adversarial, what IS one? What is the opposite of adversarial?
ALAN: Um…What comes to mind is almost expressing a sense of…I don’t know. Relying upon the other person to be open to my perspective on matters and to be willing to consider others in order to move forward?
KRIS: As well as imparting the idea that the other has YOUR best intention at heart, and conveying that you have THEIR best intention at heart. That puts you into a kind of a nurturing role.
ALAN: Well, that’s interesting because I kind of felt that way at a certain point with this individual, and I have either felt that he had my best intentions in mind, but this communication that I’ve just received does not verify those earlier intuitions and so I’ve taken them back.
KRIS: Allow what you commonly call the Inner Self to bring about the best scenario for your concerns. That, of course, requires on your part to be in a receptive mood, again, non-adversarial. There is a secret weapon in that kind of stance, and it is indeed a deep psychology. Do not provide fuel, but leave yourself open to the best possible intent as the outcome. Does that make some sense to you?
ALAN: Some sense. I will then have to believe that he has some different intention as regards the outcome than the one that he already provided.
KRIS: Many things can happen during one’s sleep. Many dreams can come about to alter the perceptions.
ALAN: Oh, interesting. You mean his perception.
KRIS: And yours. This is a scenario that is playing itself out in other than the physical situation.
ALAN: Yeah, that’s interesting, that he said that, I very much have that sense as well, too. I guess that’s a higher dimension.
KRIS: The physical drama is the stage.
ALAN: Mmhm. That’s right.
KRIS: We would not be so uncouth as to compare it to a puppet show, but there are still some similarities. The real interactions occur between the puppeteers, not the marionettes.
ALAN: There’s something going on behind the scenes, then.
KRIS: Indeed, keep all of your options open and as Mr. Churchill used to say, “Trust in God, but keep your gunpowder dry.” (Group laughter.)[Turning to Michelle:] Now, what about YOUR character?
MICHELLE: I decided to come as my inner child, basically because as an adult I have a very childlike quality, and I have lately, a kind of fear of losing that childlike quality as I go into spirituality and ascension. So, I decided to come as my inner child to try to — what do you call it? — integrate the two so I don’t lose that childlike quality that I always had and always probably will have, but how to integrate them so they’re….so I have them together.
KRIS: What does the idea of being in touch with your inner child bring about in YOU?
MICHELLE: Innocence, imagination, creativity, and joy.
KRIS: What do you as the inner child wish to impart to the adult Michelle?
MICHELLE: That she can still hold that innocence and fun, even at times when she thinks the inner child needs to fall away because the adults are busy with adult communication.
KRIS: Do you see any parts of, or areas of Michelle’s life that you can have more fun with?
MICHELLE: No. (Inaudible sentence). I guess little Michelle kind of likes the snow for snow angels and snowballs and also I think could probably help out in looking from a child’s perspective at adult issues like when people argue and make it…sometimes the adults make things…….complicated.
KRIS: Indeed, have you noticed also who it is that the adults sometimes argue the most with? … As in with themselves? …More so than with others?
KRIS: Do you think that they sometimes get into those situations because they have forgotten that they can be full of fun.
MICHELLE: Yes, I think they are too serious and sometimes they need nurturing just as much as the child. They have fears. Sometimes they need to nurture themselves as much as the child needs the nurturing from whoever is closest to them. Children don’t make things difficult. Adults make things difficult.
KRIS: As little Michelle, you realize that in this group there are many adults. Little Michelle has a voice, has a song, likes to sing. Is that correct?
KRIS: Would little Michelle have a fun little song to sing to all of the adults in the room?
MICHELLE: Seriously? (Group laughter) All right. (singing:) Itsy-bitsy spider went up the water spout, down came the rain and washed the spider out. Out came the sun and dried up all the rain, and the itsy-bitsy spider went up the spout again. (Group chuckles)
KRIS: We thank you for that. Now, each of you went through your own scenarios. Some more intensively, others lighter, and yet the one thing you all did to one degree or another is get into the character, even when sometimes you thought you were not. As we suggested last week, part of this exercise and the idea behind it is to notice the perspectives or the changes from one character to another. Do you remember?
When you were one character and then the other, did you even in that respect, pay attention to the changes in your own energies and perceptions?
MYRNA: Kris, we have one more person here that has not done it.
(Kris turns t look at Mark.)
MARK: As I explained at break, I came as my aunt, and my aunt is a very good representation of my family. She and I get along very well, and we can talk as opposed to some other family members. So I wanted to find that middle ground with my family. And having gone through the exercises and having listened to everybody here, I realized that yes, my family does push me in different directions than I necessarily want to go, but I’m also projecting to them that I might not be self-confident or necessarily be where I want to be, but I do that because I’m perceiving that I’m not living up to THEIR expectations, so it’s a vicious little circle. In acknowledging myself and whom and what I am, and that I’m actually very happy in what I’m doing, I’m giving myself that self-confidence and not trying to live up to imaginary other standards, I CAN stop that vicious little circle.
KRIS: What has putting yourself into your aunt’s perspective allowed you to see regarding yourself?
MARK: A lot more strength than I gave myself credit for. I’m not necessarily the disappointment that I make myself out to be…..A great deal of love….and respect.
KRIS: When you came to those observations, did you notice that the inner conversations — as all those other aspects of your own self that you argue specifically about — those issues have receded somewhat?
MARK: Yes. Oh, yes, definitely. I feel much stronger.
KRIS: In other words, the voices of self-doubt have been quelled somewhat.
MARK: Yes, for another day.
KRIS: Now, there is a reason why we PRETENDED to not address you.
KRIS: Indeed, we already know some of the outcomes of this specific situation. Have you given thought to this?
KRIS: Each of you, [was asked] to come as a different character, some that you even thought were the opposite of who you are, some of those characters you even thought were imaginary, some you think of with like characters that have their presence in your daily life. In an inner situation, still this is a characterization you instilled in the moment, whether believed imaginary or not, it is your interpretation to one degree or another of an individual that also reflects some of your mindsets. That also engages many of the inner dialogs that you hold concerning the polarities of those two characters. Do you understand so far?
KRIS: Now, you spoke for Philip.
KRIS: You did not speak right away, and though you have made some most delightful observations…
MARK: I didn’t put them into practice.
KRIS: Indeed, in a very simple manner — and you recognized as soon as Shara-Leene spoke up for you — that you did not want that. You wanted to speak up for yourself.
MARK: (Laughing) Very true.
KRIS: Because your characterizations and your reflections concern your family, but they also are far more involved than your LIVING family members. They are a family that live here: the dialogs and discussions, the arguments, the put-downs, correct?
MARK: Oh, yes.
KRIS: And this part of the discussion also reflects in ALL of you to one degree or another about the inner dialogs or even arguments that you hold with yourself all day long. We have spoken on this in the past as a means to find a bridge so that you can observe yourself through their eyes and in this small exercise was a means to do that. Do you not agree?
Giving you the opportunity then to put into practice what has been discussed before, but also a little bit of a trap (Group laughter) that you cannot avoid actually dealing with the situation. It can no longer stay in your heads, but it has become a part of an evening discussion. Do you understand?
MYRNA: We’ve been found out.
MARK: By ourselves. (Everyone cracks up)
KRIS: You have come out of your own closet. You have self “outed” yourselves in a way. It is important to recognize that the Bardo, the space between those two characters, involves a LOT if not a great deal of these inner dialogs, inner conversations, inner arguments, and all the various methods that you utilize to often put yourself down.
Far be it from us to point fingers at anyone, but you all know that you engage these situations often enough to recognize that now — whether it is about facing self-doubt, or any other issue — you have at least one small modality with which you can put yourself in that voice’s shoes and then come to a pleasant resolution, or at least the beginnings of a pleasant resolution. Not by shouting louder than they or by beating them up, or beating yourselves up, but by viewing who you are, what you are, from their perspective, even if momentarily, can give you immense insight into who you are and what you are, but from a different angle. Does that make sense?
JOHN: Mmhm. Yes.
KRIS: It is said that you should know thyself. You need to know WHAT your self is in order to know who you are. WHO and WHAT you are is much more complex than anything you have thought of, but not so that it is beyond your means to understand and explore, for, after all, the whole world is a reflection of who and what you are. Look at the people that populate the streets, the buildings, the roads, the offices, the home; these are all various reflections of you, engaged in all of their daily affairs, as you are.
They are entitled to their own lives, as you are, and beneath all of those scenarios is a deep love. We would even venture to say that before you dislike, or even go so far as to hate someone, you love them first, EVEN IF YOU DO NOT KNOW WHO THEY ARE. It is when, somehow or other, you are disappointed both in yourself or the other, that you begin on the road of self-judgmentalism. Do you understand? Self-criticism.
If you begin to learn how to accept who you are THAT MUCH MORE, it is easier to accept yourself and others [and is] therefore easier to return to that state of original love. There is not one THING, one BEING in the universe that does not rely on that original love for its own expression. Allow yourselves to freely indulge yourselves in loving self-conversation, self-dialog. Have you never pondered about this? Notice what inner dialog is usually about. Why do you think that is? Shara-Leene?
MYRNA: Um…..I’m sorry, I was a little distracted because I was thinking that there are many times that I have a conversation with myself when I’m very appreciative of myself, so it’s not always negative. So that’s why I was distracted, but I…I don’t know. (Long pause) Yeah….yeah, I do know. Um….if I go back to my therapeutic training, it would be around a feeling of failing expectations. But I’m trying…..I’m being re-wired around all the stuff that you’ve offered, so I don’t have those…answers anymore. I don’t know.
KRIS: Your assessment is correct. Self-criticism usually revolves around a sense of failure, of failing to meet expectations, usually projected onto the other. The other expects oneself to be such and such.
MYRNA: Right. And I think, given the nature of birth and being born into family….yeah, its starts with expectations of parents and then that’s reflected in society.
MARK: And often it’s what is PERCEIVED…..it’s not necessarily the actual expectations — it’s the PERCEIVED expectations.
MYRNA: When I get a little confused here it’s because I know I chose those paths and I know the reflections in my own belief system, so I came in here already setting myself up for this.
KRIS: As a measure of exploring the true depth of your deities to tap into the deep root of original love. There are road blocks that you throw up along the way. Sometimes the road blocks are huge boulders, sometimes they are small pebbles. Nonetheless, one’s pebble the other’s boulder. All in all, however, every individual — regardless of appearances and performances — wants to be loved and to love, regardless of what occurs as one’s life evolves and unfolds.
This discussion on tapping into inner conversations and dialogs, looking beneath the surface, behind the scenes of the very reasons for the inner dialog’s conversations is to notice those very elements — that each self seeks a loving environment and condition and you are correct: we have been speaking long enough that some of you may already have begun re-wiring yourselves. When you encounter challenges upon those very issues, you are taking the opportunity to let yourself know that there may be other areas that need extra loving today. Do you understand?
Whether it be your characterization of your parents, siblings, co-workers, mates, and so on, truly the onus is on you. For one thing only: for the love that you share and give. You have, however, to recognize that once you immerse yourself in that loving mood, it is far easier to see the whole world through those loving eyes, than if you think or believe that you must find that love elsewhere.
That means that all of your eyes have to become very lovely to go along with your lovely selves. And though this particular evening seems strange, perhaps even heavy, we can assure you that the mood can lift in one moment, as soon as you allow the deepest font of love from within your heart to rise to the surface and to fill your entire body to overflow so that loving energy can even literally seep out and escape through the pores of your skin to envelop and fill this room and everyone in it as the true atmosphere within which you find yourselves.
And the deeper you reach within this rich vein of loving energies, you will easily discover that it knows no end, it has no bottom. It is endless. It has no beginning and no end. It knows not time or space, but it knows itself. Take a deep breath and exhale, releasing that loving energy and know that sometimes love is strong, but it is still nurturing. It is YOUR love, YOUR energy. And whatever depth of lessons you have taught yourselves this evening, know that you have done so in a gentle manner and that the realizations may be far deeper than what you have glimpsed here this evening.
And we leave you with this thought for the following week. And you may put this into practice in any way, shape or form during this coming week. That if your heart and your entire being rests on the principles of original love, what would happen if that love filled every moment in every aspect and every corner of your life? What would your inner conversations and dialogs be like? What would your relationships with other beings be like? What would other beings’ relationships with you be like? Is this a good challenge?
JOHN: Oh, yes. Accepted!
KRIS: Then we do not need to take out the white gloves! (General laughter)
MYRNA: Kris, I have a question.
MYRNA: Thank you. Sometime this past week, John and I met, as we usually do, and John reminded me of — no, let me go at it another way: if I experience an aspect of myself that I have judged as……ahhhh…. difficult, is it –
KRIS: We note the ahhhhh hesitation!
(Raucous group laughter and hand clapping)
MYRNA: (Laughing as well) Is it — I know this from a therapeutic perspective — but from your perspective, is it true that that aspect is a camouflage, is a way that someone has learned to be in life in order to meet expectations, but what that aspect is striving for is that original love?
KRIS: Repeat the question.
MYRNA: Ummm…there’s an aspect that someone in my environment is demonstrating. That may be learned behavior or a belief system that camouflages.
KRIS: Belief systems and learned behaviors are not that far apart.
MYRNA: Right. They’re trying to meet expectation — that may be how they choose to meet expectation, but underneath that, the choosing to meet expectation is wanting original love. Would that be so? Let me give an example maybe that would help. Someone that I worked very close with for many years used her mind as her weapon. My experience of her was that her heart was closed. I now am beginning to realize, again, that that’s the way she chose to be in life because she felt her expectations to be like that. What she was going after was love, and that was her strategy.
KRIS: It may have been her most efficient strategy. There are many situations where individuals exhibit such behavior as a camouflage, a shield because they think if they appear in any other form — if they appear loving and respectful, even of themselves — they may be considered weak.
KRIS: Love is often in your world considered a sign of weakness, even when, with the same mouth, you will also say there is no greater power than love. It is still often considered a source of shame and weakness, a character flaw.
MYRNA: Yes. Now in adopting that as a strategy, she actually is trying to get the love. Isn’t that what our strategies are all about? We adopted them early, in order to meet expectations.
KRIS: You patterned your existence, indeed. What we are speaking about, then, goes far deeper than any strategies and demonstrations of human activities. It goes behind the scenes of all the props.
MYRNA: I — yes, I’m aware of that. Yes. Well, we’re all trying to get back to that, aren’t we?
KRIS: Because you think you have lost it.
MYRNA: Yeah. Is it not what the journey is all about?
KRIS: Rediscovering Self without all of the accouterments of modern consumerism. Love is not to be found in a pretty box under the Christmas tree. Does that make sense? Love is also not found with those who profess it but cannot live it.
JOHN: Pope Benedict! He just made a speech about that!
KRIS: We thought you were Jewish. (Group laughter)
MYRNA: Not anymore.
KRIS: Are there questions?
ALAN: I’d like to ask about crop circles.
ALAN: It seems that the crop circles that are appearing now in England and in other parts of the world are extremely precise geometric formations. I’ve been following them for the past couple of years, from simple circles to –
KRIS: They are also more and more involved with higher mathematics.
ALAN: Yes, yes, exactly.
KRIS: You will see over the next few years again taking — (pause) there is another note on that scale. There will be an escalation –
ALAN: Oh! Interesting.
KRIS: — to confound those who think they know the answers. Crop circles are indeed a very complicated issue, because of the fraudulent claims, there are times when it is difficult, but we believe there are instrumentations that can also detect the fraudulent from the authentic concerning specific wavelengths of radioactivity. On several occasions, an unknown phenomenon has been spotted in and around crop circles and even videotaped.
ALAN: The balls of light?
KRIS: Indeed. Now, we have explained before, if you were to make a figure on a blank sheet of paper with your pencil, draw a design, the underside would leave an indent. Does that make sense?
KRIS: This is perhaps crude, but our presentation on this is basically that these balls of light, many of which are not visible to the naked eye — but some are, some have been caught on tape — these balls of light are the only way specific beings from another reality — or if you wish, dimension — can make their presence known in your world, because their laws of physics are very different from yours. They cannot take shapes like you have, however, that does not mean their PRESENCE does not leave an impression, like the wind, you cannot see it, correct? But you can see the results of the wind. Whether it is a leaf gently flowing into the breeze or a gigantic oak tree snapping in two, it is still the wind, invisible to your eyes. Does that make sense? You can its effects, but you may not see it.
KRIS: These beings are extremely difficult to see, but you can see the effects of their energy. It is their method of trying to establish specific communication, but they can only do so in an extremely limited fashion and this is how their language, or communication, is appearing in your world. It will become more sophisticated still — it will escalate — but it will require an advanced mathematical genius to continue observing how the data is displayed and what it may mean.
Now, because the idea that your species is not only the only intelligent life in the universe but is the very sum of creation, you find it collectively difficult to make allowances for other life forms to present themselves. And believe us if you will, believe us not if you will, it matters little to us, BUT your first contact with alien life forms will not be like Hollywood presents it.
MARK: So the purpose of the message would be something as simple as “You are not alone,” or is it much more complex?
KRIS: It is more complex. It has gotten more and more complex and will continue to do so until there is sufficient interest to begin interpreting the mathematical data embedded into the designs of the circles. Does that make sense?
ALL: Yes. Oh yeah.
LIDA: Will this enhance our understanding of the Universe?
KRIS: That would be a given. Part of the communication itself.
MARK: So we’re not just speaking about the physical universe either.
KRIS: Indeed not, since these beings are not physical in the sense that you are, and they do not look like little balls of light. That is how their form is translated by the embedded physics of your reality and it does require a good amount of energy on their part to make those communications because of the translations involved. (John makes an appreciative sound and Kris addresses him:) Perhaps there is a “Hoot” story in there somewhere!
JOHN: There may very well be! It’s not such a big step for us, Kris, because after all, we’re talking to YOU!
MARK: From what I’m getting from that too, is that it’s a message from self to self, saying that there’s a lot more to YOU than you are acknowledging, or letting yourself perceive.
KRIS: Now, what is the time?
KRIS: Then we will wish all of your lovely selves pleasant dreams, sweet discoveries, little balls of light and all!
ALL: Thank you, Kris.
(Session ends at 9:38 PM.)
Serge Joseph Grandbois channels Kris, a compassionate and intelligent non-physical entity, or Energy Personality Gestalt (as Kris describes themselves). Serge is one of the clearest vessels for non-physical communication in the world today. He has given voice to Kris for nearly 35 years, helping people from all walks of life.
NEW ONLINE WORKSHOP! >> "DREAM SPEAKERS"